On this bonus episode, host Betsy Bird and Veera Hiranandani chat about the parallels between Veera's childhood school experiences and those of Willa's story seed. You’ll also get some writing tips from the Newbery Honor-winning author!
Listen along as The Story Seeds Podcast host Betsy Bird chats with Veera Hiranandani (author of the Newbery Honor-winning book THE NIGHT DIARY). They go behind the scenes and talk about what it was like to grow 10 year old Willa’s story seed into the short story "Under the Maple Tree" for Episode 2 “From Homeschool to Public School."
In this bonus episode, Veera also shares writing tips, including the importance of drawing inspiration from your own experiences and naming your characters. Plus, she talks about her writing life and tells us the cool story of her journey to becoming a published children's book author.
Books and Media mentioned in this episode: The Night Diary by Veera Hiranandani. Dora the Explorer. Spongebob Squarepants. Blue's Clues.
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This episode is also available on YouTube. Subscribe here.
Show credits: Matt Boynton and Ania Grzesik of Ultraviolet Audio for the sound mixing, design, and score of our bonus episode. Theme music is composed and performed by Andrew VanWyngarden. And, our host is Betsy Bird.
The Story Seeds Podcast is a creation and production of Literary Safari www.literarysafari.com
[Intro]
Betsy: Hi Story Seeds Podcast listeners. Your host Betsy Bird here. Welcome to our bonus episode.
Betsy: One of my favorite parts of this job is that I get to talk to all the authors we are featuring on the podcast to get the behind the scenes scoop on their experiences and writing life.
Betsy: I had the chance to interview Veera Hira-nandani, author of the The Night Diary, a 2019 Newbery Honor Book. She collaborated with 11 year old Willa Hatcher Fields on “Under the Maple Tree.” We talked about her immediate connection to Willa and deciding how to name your characters when writing.
Betsy: Without further ado, here is my conversation with Veera
[Interview]
Betsy: Veera. Thank you. Thank you so much, Veera, for talking to me today. This is quite a thrill.
Veera: My pleasure. A thrill for me, too.
Betsy: Excellent. Well, I have a couple questions for you about the time that you spent with Willa. So I guess let's see, how shall I start? Well, let's just talk about Willa herself. Now, Willa had a very specific story idea that right down to including the character's name.
Veera: Yes. Yeah. I mean, that it was a really interesting way to work. Because usually I'm generating all of those things, so. So it took the pressure off a little bit. Now I was given the ingredients, so.
Betsy: Have you ever collaborated with another writer before?
Veera: I have not. I've done some work for hire back in my early days where you are given kind of characters and a plot, so, you know, I have some experience doing that, but I've never worked with another writer.
Betsy: And you certainly have never collaborated with a kid before.
Veera: No, no, I've taught. You know, I teach writing classes for young people, so I'm usually helping them right there. You know, realizing their visions. But this was a collaboration that was completely new.
Betsy: Yeah. That's what I find so interesting about this, is that, you know, in some ways you're kind of working with them on an equal level. You're you're really a you're a partner in this, which is kind of cool because kids don't tend to get to partner with real authors all that often. I would say.
Veera: I would have been pretty excited. So I hope Willa is, as she seemed to be and she obviously was just had a very specific creative mind and she really had a vision of what she wanted this story to be. So I felt a little bit like, oh, I hope I can sort of live up to her expectations.
Betsy: Yeah, I wondered if you. That was something that you would be worried about. And then when she had like all these ideas and you were writing a story with them, I mean, what was that like for you? Basically.
Veera: I felt like I felt like she gave me enough and not too much, you know, because I knew that I was going to be collaborating. I was gonna be trying to take these ingredients and grow them like a seed. Right.
Betsy: Yeah, I see what you did there.
Veera: And grow them and into this full piece. And and I didn't find the the details overwhelming and even her giving me the name. I just kind of started at that place and I and I thought, OK, so what does that name feel like to me? Who do I see when I say that name? I felt like I had the freedom to just kind of take it and run with it. And I let myself have that freedom while I was writing it. And then, you know, I had a few doubts creep in at the end. But usually when I'm writing, I kind of give myself as much freedom as I can.
Betsy: Well, I think it's interesting, this is the name in a way kind of helped you.
Veera: Yes, it did. It did. It's sort of a certain personality and and I am a little bit of a people pleaser. So, you know, I felt like I wouldn't do a good job with this. This name is important to Willa. So I want I want to sort of honor that for her.
Betsy: Oh, sure. When you're writing your own books, do you enjoy coming up with the names, is coming up with the names, something you loathe and detest?
Veera: No, no, no, I think it's one of the most important things a writer does. Names are so incredibly important and I think people go on a journey with their name, their first and last name, their whole lives, even if they change their names in whatever way. Maybe it's your last name. Maybe they some people change their first name or they're always [00:05:00.0] called by a nickname. Whatever your story is with your name, it's just a undeniable piece of you. And so I think about that when I'm choosing my characters names and sometimes when I'm working with other writers and in a teaching capacity, sometimes people forget to name their characters. And I say, you have to name them. You can't go on without a name.
Betsy: Oh, that's so strange to me, the idea that you could write a story and not know the names of your characters.
Veera: Yeah, you'd be surprised that people will just say he/she for a while. And usually it's a shorter piece, but they didn't realize they didn't they didn't name their character.
Betsy: Have you ever done a book where you change the character's name late in the process?
Veera: Yes, definitely. I changed the characters names several times for different reasons. Sometimes it's just an authenticity issue. Sometimes the character changes. And that's hard, especially the longer I've spent with the character. It can be a loss in a way.
Betsy: Yeah.
Veera: Actually for The Night Diary I had to change the main brother’s name
Betsy: Oh.
Veera: Yeah. So he was another name before he became Amil. And it was just for certain reasons that changed in the family background and so that was hard. But then now it's his name.
Betsy: No. Well, it's … you you got used to it yourself, I guess.
Veera: Exactly
Betsy: Yeah.
Veera: Exactly.
Betsy: Yeah. So I think as part of this whole process, you went to Willa's school, The Blue School. What was that like? Did it help with the story to help with getting to know Willa? Like, what was it that was that like?
Veera: Yeah, I think it helped in both ways because part of why I connected with Willa. And her idea and just the way she explained herself, the information I got about her before I met her was that she went to an alternative school. And, also she knew her character. She wanted her character to be home school. And I wasn't home schooled. But I I went to a very small, creative alternative private school when I was young. That was started by my parents friends. And it really was. It was as free a structured school as it could be, you know, and we just kind of created art and made plays. And we were all just one big family. And it was sort of it was closer to home schooling as far as us, as far as a school can be. And so I really connected with that idea of having more freedom with how you learn and kind of questioning all of that. And so seeing Willa in her school, I felt like these questions are really on her mind. And so that helped me kind of really see where she was coming from and connect that way
Betsy: Yeah. That makes sense. Where was this school that you went to when you were a kid?
Veera: In Connecticut, actually.
Betsy: Connecticut
Veera: Yes. All the way in Connecticut,
Betsy: All the way.
Veera: All the way far away in Connecticut. And it really was. There were like 50 kids in the entire school. There were about eight kids in my class. And we were together for years. Just us kids. And it was a pretty unusual situation. But it was.
Betsy: It sounds it.
Veera: And it was amazing. And it really I felt like it really I just felt like an artist, very young in that school. And then things really changed when I went to the town public school from fourth or fifth grade. And that was a huge change for me. So the fact that Willa wanted her, saw her characters, somebody was homeschooled that had to go to the public school. I really related to that.
Betsy: I can tell. And that's such an interesting connection I do. I know that when you were paired with Willa, that was not something that was known to everybody.
Veera: Right.
Betsy: So what a lovely coincidence
Veera: Yeah.
Betsy: That is. But I guess the experience of going to a new school is, I wouldn't say universal, but it's it's widely happened to a lot
Veera: Yes.
Betsy: To a lot of people.
Veera: Yes. So it just really depends on how different those schools are. And of course, there's always gonna be new people and new teachers and a new environment. But sometimes it's really new.
Betsy: Oh, yeah.
Veera: So, yes.
Betsy: So now you left the story at a very interesting place. I would say
Betsy: So. That sort of opens it up for kids to kind of continue it in their ways. Well, what do you hope that Willa and other kids do with this story? Like what directions would you hope they would go with?
Veera: Oh, gosh, I have that is completely an open book. I mean, I hope that what I've done is make the characters in the short space real enough where they believe the characters and have a very kind of realized sense of those characters enough for the story to have meaning. So then their ideas feel meaningful to them.
Betsy: Hmm
Veera: But as far as where it goes, that is the adventure. Who knows? And I always say, you know, everybody will do their own thing. And that's what's exciting about it. And when I talk to students in my writing classes, I always say I could give you all the same plot and you would all do something different with it. So, yeah, it's whatever this the writer wants to do.
Betsy: You know, in your capacity as a writing teacher, it's very interesting to me how that has sort of informed your collaboration with Willa through this whole process is really cool.
Veera: Yes, I'm always learning and I teach both kids and adults, so it's nice to kind of see what's similar and what's different about different age groups.
Betsy: Oh, that's interesting, huh? I kind of want to dive into that, but I suppose it's off topic, so I'll shy away from it for now.
Betsy: Can you share any other interesting things or tidbits about your writing process like where you write? Is there something you eat? When do you do it? What? What makes it special for you?
Veera: Sure. Well, I thrive on routine. I think many writers do and some writers don't. I envy them that they can just kind of write anywhere in any situation. I am not one of those people, so I have an office on the third floor of my house, which is really a converted attic space. And I can see that the tops of the trees. And it's really it's comforting, but it's not too it's like not too nice. It's really just the tops of the trees.
Betsy: Can't be too nice or it's distracting. Yeah.
Veera: Right. Exactly. Exactly. And and I just love I have to have something, either a cup of coffee or a cup of tea. And when I run out, I take breaks to fill up my cup of coffee or my cup of tea. I can't write without something, a nice drink like that. And even in the summer, I'll have a hot [00:14:00.0] cup tea. And, you know, I don't usually eat when I write and I like to write because that's also distracting. I eat after I write, I take breaks and.
Betsy: How long a stretch do you go when you write?
Veera: I wrote about three or four hours at a time. I can't really write more than that. And sometimes even just like two hours. I like to kind of write to the point where I feel like, OK, I can write a little more, but I'm just gonna leave it right now and sort of leave something for myself tomorrow. And I really like to write every day if I can. I mean, there are plenty of times with the chaos of life where I can go weeks without writing. But when I'm writing every day, it is just compounds and it builds on itself. And I really get in the pocket that way. And I love that feeling.
Betsy: That makes sense. Can you write on planes?
Veera: Sometimes if I really have to, but I have to. I'm on a deadline, I'll force myself and then I'll kind of get into it. But some people love that. I find that a plane is like, I'm just not connected to anything going on in my life. All I can do is like stare and maybe watch a movie. I don't know what happens to me on a plane, but I'm not my most productive.
Betsy: Very interesting. I always I always get very interested in how people do on planes and airports. You're right. Some people do hoard that stuff and then some people just cannot connect.
Veera: I really tune out on planes, so.
Betsy: Yeah, that makes sense. So what made you want to be a part of story seeds? Like, why did you agree to come on the show?
Veera: Yeah, well, I was really fascinated with the idea and I thought it was really empowering idea for children to have this equal collaboration with published writers. I thought that was really great. I. At first I was worried because I've taught writing to young people that at first my role I thought, but. Aren't I supposed to be helping the young person write their story? You know, I couldn't kind of at first switch that teacher mode. And then I thought about it and I just wanted to try it and see what the opportunity felt like. And then the moment I was with Willa and we were talking, I just felt like this is a really exciting new process and I'm really glad that I did it.
Betsy: Cool. Now, you mentioned that you. You help teach kids how to write. When you were a kid. Did you.. Were you a writer at all?
Veera: Did I write at all when I was a kid?
Betsy: Yeah. Yeah. When you were a kid, did you write?
Veera: I did all the time I was, you know, I was one of those creative kids who just felt, especially in my early years at this school, just very free. I wrote poems, I wrote stories, I wrote plays. It was definitely the way I kind of was trying to figure out who I was and the world around me. I also just I mean, I guess I'm a bit of an escapist, you know, just like making up stuff. I have a pretty active imagination. And so that was always something that came very natural to me. Just maybe it was.
Betsy: Did you keep writing or did you stop at a certain point?
Veera: No, I always wrote, I always wrote,
Betsy: Wow.
Veera: And, you know, I. I mean, you know, you go kind of in and out With the intensity of things, but I really don't remember a time in my life where I wasn't thinking in some way of writing some kind of story. And maybe it was in a slightly different form. Maybe it was a poem, maybe it was a play. But I've always been thinking about stories really
Betsy: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Veera: Ever since I remember.
Betsy: That's great. Now, much like superheroes. Every writer has their origin story on how they became a professional. Published author at some point.
Veera: Right.
Betsy: What madam is your origin story?
Veera: Well, it's a very long and somewhat boring one, but I went to graduate school for four fiction writing after spending one year out of college working at a real job. And was like, oh no, not for me. Got to go back to school. And so I did. And I was in I was getting my MFA really young. I was so young. And so I thought, okay, I'll get my MFA and I'll become a famous writer afterwards. And I wrote a novel in that program. And then, you know, I kind of messed with it for a few years after the program. And I thought, you know what, this is my drawer novel. This isn't really what I want to stand by. And then I wrote lots of short stories afterwards and I published a few here and there. But I started working in publishing actually at Simon and Schuster. And then I was working in the children's department and I was doing a lot of tie-in work with like different Nickelodeon properties and stuff. And it was really fun work. But I think just being in the children's department, I started thinking a lot more about writing for children and I started thinking a lot more about just my own young life and how I could use it to turn it into fiction. And so I started writing my first novel there, the whole story of Half a girl. And then I got pregnant with my first child and I left publishing to be home for a little while. And that's when I really dug in to my novel. And I wrote mostly when she was napping. But it took me a few years to then kind of connect with an editor who ultimately didn't buy the novel, but gave me names of agents than i found an agent then. And then things happened. But, you know, we're talking this is a over a course of like 20 years from when I was in my MFA program.
Betsy: No it makes sense. What year were you at Simon Schuster?
Veera: Oh, gosh. Now you're asking me to do math.
Betsy: I'm sorry.
Veera: So.
Betsy: Well, you say you stopped when your daughter was born.
Veera: Right.
Betsy: There you go.
Veera: Right. My daughter is gonna be 16 in November. So a long time ago. I mean, it really started working at Simon Schuster already now.
Betsy: Mm hmm.
Veera: That was like 20 years ago. So.
Betsy: Okay. So I was trying to figure out if we might have overlap. But I think you probably would have taken off just as I was coming by and doing stuff. Okay, that's fine. I think the the important part of that story is that you did work with Nickelodeon. So really that that's that's the part that's gonna stand out. Did you do stuff with SpongeBob?
Veera: I did, and Dora The Explorer
Betsy: There you go.
Veera: And under a pseudonym. I have written many Dora the Explorer books, so
Betsy: Oh, that's that's a fun fact. I like that fact
Veera: That is a fun fact. So.
Betsy: Yeah, that's good for children's literature trivia nights.
Veera: Yeah
Betsy: There you go.
Veera: Exactly. So and Blue's Clues and all of that.
Betsy: Oh, my gosh. Blue's Clues.
Veera: Yes.
Betsy: Well, one last little bit here. So this this is sort of come under the umbrella of advice for kids. So when you're working with the kids that are writing their own stories and they get stuck, you know, they just cannot go. They feel they cannot go any further. What do you do to help them get their imagination unstuck? Like a like. Is there a muscle stretch exercise where their brains that they might use?
Veera: Well, I think two reasons that people get stuck and this is really both for kids and adults. They're either bored and the connection just wasn't meant to be with their work. Now, you know, the other thing I say is you're not going to always feel incredibly inspired every word you write. You know, sometimes you just have to get to the end, but you still have some drive and some connections. So maybe it's because you need to move on and think of something new. But the other thing that I think can get people stuck is you don't know where your story's going. And that can really feel sort of overwhelming. And it makes you feel like you want to give up. So I think that that's a signal that you may want to sort [00:23:00.0] of plan out your story more. And that's where you start to look at plot and what can happen. So I always try to get whatever writer I'm working on to start thinking about plot. That to me is a signal that can unstick you. And it usually works. Usually works.
Betsy: Oh, that's a really good piece of advice there. Wonderful. Well, Vrera, thank you so much for talking with me today.
Veera: Thank you.
[Closing]
Betsy: Well, folks that’s all for today. Subscribe to our show on your favorite podcast streaming platform so you can tune in as soon as our newest episodes drop.
If you have a stellar story seed and wanna be on the show, email us at storyseeds@literarysafari.com. You can also call our hotline at (646) 389-5153 and leave a voicemail telling me all about it.
Find us on Instagram at storyseedspod and visit our website www.storyseedspodcast.com for behind the scenes pictures, to join the Story Seeds Society, and so much more.
[Credits]
Betsy: Credit to Matt Boynton and Ania (Jes-Shiek) Grzesik of Ultraviolet Audio for the sound mixing, design, and score of our bonus episode. Our theme music is composed and performed by Andrew VanWyngarden. And I am your host Betsy Bird. Story Seeds is a Literary Safari Media production.