On this bonus episode, host Betsy Bird and Aram Kim chat about growing Cici’s electric story seed into the original superhero caper "Adventures of Electric Kitty: The Blackout." You’ll also get writing tips, and hear how Aram Kim got her start as an award-winning author and illustrator of picture books including NO KIMCHI FOR ME and her latest LET'S GO TO TAEKWONDO.
Listen along as The Story Seeds Podcast host Betsy Bird chats with Aram Kim (author and illustrator of Bank Street’s Best Children’s Book of 2018 NO KIMCHI FOR ME.) They go behind the scenes and talk about what it was like meeting Cici and growing her electric story seed about Queens’ new neighborhood superhero, Electric Kitty, on Episode 4 “Heroes and Queens.” They also talk about the significance of Queens in Aram and Cici's story–the most diverse borough in NYC and neighborhood in the country.
On this bonus episode, Aram also shares her research process, writing tips for kids and grownups, and shares why getting through the first draft in one sitting can be really valuable. You'll also hear about how she got started in her career and pursued her passion of making art.
Books and Media mentioned in this episode: Captain Underpants by Dav Pilkey, Blackout by John Rocco, Cat on the Bus by Aram Kim. Comic Books: Superman.
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This episode is also available on YouTube. Subscribe here.
Show credits: Matt Boynton and Ania Grzesik of Ultraviolet Audio for the sound mixing, design, and score of our bonus episode. Theme music is composed and performed by Andrew VanWyngarden. And, our host is Betsy Bird.
The Story Seeds Podcast is a creation and production of Literary Safari www.literarysafari.com
[ Intro]
Betsy [0:00]:
Hi Story Seeds Podcast listeners. Your host Betsy Bird here. Welcome to our bonus episode. One of my favorite parts of this job is that I get to talk to all the authors we are featuring on the podcast to get the behind the scenes scoop on their experiences and writing life.
Betsy [0:28]: Today, I am speaking to Aram Kim, author of the delightful cat-centric picture books Cat on the Bus, No Kimchi For Me, and her latest Let’s Go To Taekwondo. Aram worked with 7 year old Cici on “The Adventures of Electric Kitty.”
[Interview]
Betsy: [00:47] So Aram Kim. Thank you so much for talking with me. And it was just so much fun to hear you interacting with Cici. Cici, who is our our youngest story seeds kid that we've done so far.
Betsy: [01:03] And she had such specific story ideas like even including the character's name and lots of plot ideas. So basically, you write and you illustrate. But as a writer, like, what was that like for you seeing all these ideas? You just had multiple tons and tons of ideas. How do you how do you make a story out of that?
Aram: [01:28] So basically, I took the very basic idea of what Cici had. But talking with her was amazing because as you said, she had so many ideas and they had so much. depth. She had a lot of characters. First of all. Yeah. Each character had name and origin story. Backstory. Archenemy. And not just like good and bad, but they had different tiers. They were complex characters. I was really amazed when I was talking with her. I was like, oh, wow, this is so much more than what I expected, you know?
Betsy: [02:10] Did you worry at all whether Cici would like the direction you were taking things?
Aram: [02:15] I mean, I. I feel like I have taken it quite far away from where we started. But even then, we have our main character, Electric Kitty, who is a very major part of the story. And she is very prominent in my story. So I think she will be OK. I think she would be actually delighted.
Betsy: [02:38] But I feel like It doesn't matter if you're an adult with a kid or an adult with an adult. A kid with a kid. Like when you're collaborating with somebody, you have to hear what they're saying. And I felt like you did a really good job at that.
Aram: [02:49] Oh, thank you. Thank you. It was a very ... it... I had a great time with Cici.
Betsy: [02:53] Yeah, I. It came through. It sounded like you guys were having a great time. Yeah exactly.
Aram: [02:59] You know, it was a good Saturday.
Betsy: [03:01] So she was definitely inspired in some part by Superman, which it was interesting that she was very influenced, I thought, by Captain Underpants.
Aram: [03:12] Uh-huh.
Betsy: [03:13] I see a lot of Captain Underpants at work there. And then in good way.Just in terms of like how it was set up and in the format in some ways. Have you ever read any of the captain underpants?
Aram: [03:24] You know, the funny thing is so Cici said her favorite book is Captain Underpants. And after that, I actually read the very first Captain Underpants for the first time in my life.
Betsy: [03:38] Oh, wow!
Aram: [03:39] I loved it!
Betsy: [03:40] I love them. They're so much fun
Aram: [03:42] It is so fun. And I could see why kids are so crazy about it. So I did also read it as kind of research too, because I thought it would be kind of like a perfect formatting for this kind of a short story that should fit in like 10 minutes of recording. But then also it has to have all that dramas. So it was great help.
Betsy: [04:06] That's great. And I feel that any project that involves one having to read Captain Underpants as research is a good project right there.
Aram: [04:15] I agree. Yeah, I agree.
Betsy: [04:20] How was it to collaborate on the illustration of Electric Kitty with Cici because she was so excited to draw out her visualization of the character. How do you collaborate visually with someone?
Aram: [04:32] So what I was imagining before I went in was that we would draw together in a sketchbook. So she would draw some part. I would draw some part.
Aram: [04:42] But then, because she was so enthusiastic, I kind of just wanted to see where she takes it. And she just it drew this fantastic Electric Kitty on a big piece of paper. I was amazed. Then I was like, I don't think I should touch this. It looks like a masterpiece. So I took that and I brought it with me. I didn't ... you know, like I didn't follow it exactly what it was because I also wanted to put in some aspect of my own. And I'm actually very excited for her to see what I came up with. I think she would be really delighted and we could see them side by side. Yeah. yeah I cannot wait.
Betsy: [05:34] When you create your illustrations for a story... and any story, not necessarily even this one... do you sketch the art first or do you write the words down first?
Aram: [05:47] Most of the time it happens at the same time. So it's never anything first. But then for this one. I think I started writing first because it was a different form of writing than what I had been doing. Because I always did the picture books. So it was kind of like different type of writing. So because I was a little bit afraid of not getting it done on time and in a right way. So I started writing first to spend more time on it. But then but then before I finished writing, I started drawing too. It is hard for me to go on writing for a really long time without drawing because it does happen visually in my head too. So I do need to cut a piece out of the paper and that sometimes brings up other story aspect as well.
Betsy: [06:50] Yeah, that makes sense.
Betsy: [06:52] So you and Cici are both from Queens, New York. And then you went to her home, which is in Queens. So do you feel the Queens had a particular inspiration on the story or even that her home had inspiration in some way?
Aram: [07:08] Queens definitely had has the inspiration, at least for me and I think for Cici too, because it is a very rich environment. There are so many different ethnicities. There is a huge diversity, so many different kinds of food and people. If you go to the neighborhood playground, it's kind of like looks like a movie. Where it's an ideal mix of like everyone coming together. There are really many kinds of like different people just there. So it is definitely a big inspiration for me and for Cici She does live in the middle of all the hustle and bustle of Queens. And so I cannot imagine not being inspired by it.
Betsy: [08:00] Yeah, that's true. That makes sense.
Aram: [08:02] Yeah. Yeah,.
Betsy: [08:03] Yeah. And it felt it felt like Queens... like when I when I heard the story I was like, yep, that that's just it...
Aram: [08:11] I'm glad.
Betsy: [8:13] Yes very much so.
Betsy: [08:14] Oh, you know, another thing that that felt very accurate to New York City was the blackout. You know I loved that the context for the story was a blackout, because blackouts do not, in my opinion, get enough attention in children's books. That is that's my stand on it. Putting my flag on it. That's what I say. Have you ever been in a blackout yourself?
Aram: [08:39] Not in New York, but then in Korea. When I was a child, that. Yeah, I mean, it did happen. So in my story, there is a part where grandpa takes out candles from the drawer like dusty candles because they haven't been using it for a long time. And I remember as a kid we did have candles at home. But then now, of course, no one has candles except the scented candles. Everyone has their flashlights and if a blackout...
Betsy: [09:09] So if you had a blackout and then everything smells like pumpkin for a while.
Aram: [09:13] Yeah, yeah. The only candle you can find is like scented candles. So yeah, it kind of brought back my memories of blackout, which did happen when I was a child a couple of times at least that I can remember.
Betsy: [09:29] Yeah, well, I think it made a good background for the story too. Did you feel like the blackout like really worked with the electric Kitty outline that you guys were working on?
Aram: [09:38] I think so. Because in California, like a few weeks ago, the power company was cutting off the power. Right.
Betsy: [09:47] Right. Before The wildfire.
Aram: [09:49] So how to incorporate incidents that are actually happening in the real world and always so that connection with the environmental changes. So, yeah, I thought the blackout could be something related to those and also something that actually happened in New York City last summer a couple of times.
Betsy: [10:13] Yes. I think blackouts can be fun. I think people do find them scary. But certainly ... I just think they're just, you know, especially like in books like Blackout by John Rocco. I think there's a lot of fun for a kid particularly to be had.
Aram: [10:30] Right. Right. I don't remember being scared of Blackout as a kid. It was a fun event. Something different.
Betsy: [10:36] Exactly. And free ice cream! and who doesn't want free ice cream. You have to eat it Or it'll melt.
Aram: [10:44] Exactly. Exactly.
Betsy: [10:45] Oh tear. So sad.
Betsy: [10:49] All right. I need to I need to shift gears and ask you a very, very serious question now. Very serious. Do you believe that electric Kitty is an important hero for our times? And if so, why?
Aram: [11:05] Electric Kitty is an important figure. An important superhero of our time because of all these environmental disasters happening are very real. Yeah, tsunami, hurricane, extreme weather. So electric kitty is in the center of bringing communities together to fight the environmental disaster. So I think that's a good reason that Electric Kitty is a very important superhero of our time.
Betsy: [11:39] Now, who is your own personal superhero? Could be an actual superhero or could be someone in your life who is a superhero to you. Who's... who's your superhero?
Aram: [11:50] Oh, that's such a hard question to answer. I mean...
Aram: [11:53] So in a personal level. Let's say except for my family, because I don't want to leave anyone out. So I would say not my family... except my family. My school... like when I was in school, my mentor, Pat Cummings, she has been a superhero not only for me but for a lot of her students. There are so many people who... whom she'd taken under her wing and groom, then nurtured, then nourished. Then she is truly an amazing teacher who also is a writer and illustrator. And her generosity of sharing the information and sharing the resources and her support of every student that comes in her way is really heroic. So I would say Pat Cummings's my superhero.
Betsy: [13:01] That is such an excellent choice. I love Pat. So that is such a good ... That just makes me so happy. What an excellent person you selected. Well done. Gold star for you? Yes.
Aram: [13:13] Oh thank you!
Betsy: [13:17] Now, going back to Cici. Now, Cici said that electric kitty was inspired by her cat Nola. And you have a cat. Do you not?
Aram: [13:26] I did not know.
Betsy: [13:28] Aww. Did your cat inspire any of your work ever?
Aram: [13:33] Actually, my very first book, Cat on the Bus was partly inspired by my cat. So that book itself was actually inspired by this photo, random photo I saw online. Someone took a photo of the street Cat who got on the bus. But then so the street cat was cold outside and hungry and turned out the bus driver felt bad for the cat. So he let the cat on the bus so that, you know, she could be warm for a while. So that was really heartwarming and inspiring for me. So I wrote the book. But when I actually illustrated it, I drew after my cat. Her name is [name]. And she was a stray cat too, from the short term. So it kind of ... It just made me think a lot about what kind of life she might have had before we found each other. So it was an interesting experience. And also when I was working on that book, when I was doing the final art for the book, she died. So, yeah, it was a very kind of like comforting way to keep drawing her over and over. Yeah. So it is actually very special for me.
Betsy: [15:01] That's great. That's so sweet.
Aram: [15:004] I didn't mean to bring down...
Betsy: [15:08] Brought it all down...
Betsy: [15:11] Well let's keep on that vein and we'll keep on a slightly more serious vein. Like when you were a kid, were you a writer or were you an illustrator or were you both?
Aram: [15:22] I think I was both. I remember as my very first, like, dream. You know, like when people ask you, like, what do you want to be when you grow up? I always said a painter because at that time, I didn't know the word illustrator so I said, painter. Yeah, I have some like self portraits as as second grader that I drew my service as a painter. But then along the way, somehow, even as a kid, I realized or I thought that being a painter would be really, really hard. And I always loved reading and I was always writing. So I thought I would become a writer. I don't know why I thought being a writer would be easier than being an artist, but that's what I did always want to be a writer and illustrator. And I did detour lot. But then I think I did come to my path eventually.
Betsy: [16:31] Well, what kept you going? Because if you were a kid and you wanted these things and you were in second grade. I love that you were in second grade because that's that's where Cici is right now.
Aram: [16:40] Oh, that's correct. Right.
Betsy: [16:41] Right. So what what kept you going? Like what allowed you to just believe you could do this as well as a job?
Aram: [16:51] I have to confess that I didn't keep going. I did give up. Very early.
Aram: [16:57] So as I was entering middle school and I grew up in Korea and it does the school educations gets pretty serious. So you do study or there's, you know, basic subjects like math and Korean, English, or social studies, science. You do very much focus on it to get a good score at the entrance exam for college, which is very sad because it does restrict students from imagining and learning on their own. But then I was a good student, so I did study those and I did not draw at all for a really long time. And I read it, but I didn't write much. So I just I don't know. I was just in the system and I didn't know how to break out of it or I didn't even think there was a possibility. So I just followed. It was only after I went to college that I started writing and also drawing again, maybe because I thought, oh, I already enter that college. Maybe I don't need to study anymore. Which was a very wrong notion. Well, maybe that's how I started writing and drawing again.
Aram: [18:28] But the time I started seriously considering of professionally drawing was actually when I came to United States as an exchange student. I was an English major student in Korea, so I was taking English literature classes in American University, which was extremely difficult.
Aram: [18:50] It was extremely difficult, very different from what I was studying in Korea. So as break. To give myself a little break, I took an art class. I thought, yeah, I mean, art class you got to use less English. Right. So that's why I started taking art class. And it was such an eye opening experience. And I was just amazed how free I felt, how much I enjoyed it, how I just loved staying up all night and then drawing. So that really got me thinking that if I need to work all my life, I want to do what I love. So, yeah, that's when I switched the path and started studying to become an illustrator.
Betsy: [19:50] Oh, well, that's a great story. Now well. And so for those kids out there who might potentially want to be, you know, an illustrator or a writer, sometimes they can get a little frustrated and feel like they can't come up with any good ideas or they're like all my ideas are bad. What do you do to get your imagination unstuck when it when it gets stuck sometimes?
Aram: [20:15] That is really difficult question. And that is actually a question that I always ask when I go to school visits. I say, what do you do when you're stuck? Well, usually. So if I'm working on a story and I feel stuck, I usually doesn't leave it for a while and then I take some time and come back to it. But then that time could be actually years. So it could be a week or a month, but years.
Betsy: [20:48] Years. Oh my
Aram: [20:51] And so I think that's why it's actually a good thing to work on several projects at the same time so that you keep working. But then you don't necessarily work on just one single project for the entire time because then you kind of get fresh eyes, too, and you're working on different projects and you don't feel too frustrated about not going forward with one particular project. I know everyone works differently, but then, yeah, for me it kind of works.
Betsy: [21:25] That's great. So, you know, using the imagination. Some people consider it a muscle that can be strengthened in some way. If you're speaking directly to the kids, like what would you suggest as an imagination muscle building exercise for the kids who are listening to this podcast?
Aram: [21:48] So this might sound contradictory, what I just said. But to build an imaginary muscle, I think you should start drawing or a comics, story, that you are working on and then finish first draft in one sitting. So, yeah. Before you finish this story. Don't take a break. Don't go like search the Internet. Don't like go out like, have fun. Just Sit down. Yeah, sit down. write or draw to the end. Even if it stinks. Yeah.
Betsy: [22:29] Don't get distracted.
Aram: [22:31] Right. Yeah. Yeah. And it's really difficult to do that. It is. It is.
Betsy: [22:39] And you're saying they should do it even if it stinks. Even if if what you think is no good. Still do it.
Aram: [22:46] Yes, exactly. You might end up like drawing stick figures. But then still if you stick to the end of the story, I think that does make you grow a lot.
Betsy: [22:58] Oh, that's great advice. In fact, everything you've said has been great advice. This whole darn podcast is full of great advice.
Aram: [23:05] You're too kind.
Betsy: [23:07] Well, Aram Kim. Thank you so much for talking to me today. This has been just a delight.
Aram: [23:14] It has been so much fun. Thank you so much for talking with me.
Betsy: [23:18] No problem. You have a good one.
[Closing]
Betsy: [23:22] Well, folks that’s all for today. Subscribe to
our show on your favorite podcast streaming platform so you can tune in as soon as our newest episodes drop.
If you have a stellar story seed and wanna be on the show, email us at storyseeds@literarysafari.com. You can also call our hotline at (646) 389-5153 and leave a voicemail telling me all about it.
Find us on Instagram at storyseedspod and visit our website www.storyseedspodcast.com for behind the scenes pictures, to join the Story Seeds Society, and so much more.
[Credits]
Betsy: [24:02] Credit to Matt Boynton and Ania Grzesik of Ultraviolet Audio for the sound mixing, design, and score of our bonus episode. Our theme music is composed and performed by Andrew VanWyngarden. And I am your host Betsy Bird. Story Seeds is a Literary Safari Media production.